UFO FORUMS

Hello DazSavage,

[quote="DazSavage"]
I believe in extraterrestrials.
Because firstly, science and mathematical probability demands that we believe this and secondly if I accept UFO's as piloted craft beyond the reach of current human technology then the extraterrestrial answer is.........[/quote]

First of all "science" and "believe" in the same sentence in an incongruity. Secondly, science demands nothing of us. Conclusion? It does NOT demand that we believe in extraterrestrials. Science uses Kepler to find planets- that's all. Everything else is up to subjective individual belief systems. Saying that mathmatical probability demands extraterrestrial belief is leading and misleading.

Yes, the Milky Way is a big, and very OLD Galaxy. And of course the Universe is gigantic so the PROBABILITY of other life forms is high but far, far from a given. Science only suggests we think about the mathmatical probability....PERIOD. In other words science does not infer life of any kind anywhere. If you BELIEVE there is that's fine but a little proof would go a long way in supporting your ET vs. warring Humans scenario. Oh and yes, we are a warring civilization without doubt.

I have a question for you now. It has been said there are 57 varieties of Aliens; others say as many as 200 different races. There are also a BUNCH of different kinds of UFO shapes and sizes that have been reported flying around for decades and beyond. Then too, abductees tell of a range of treatments from good to bad. Can you roll all that together and come up with a plausible hypothesis covering all aspects I've just mentioned? It would be helpful in possibly making some sense of it all as everything seems so haphazard in an almost ridiculously random sort of way.

welcome to the site Daz :b-)

[quote] On the question which seems to have arisen on what on Earth they're doing here (pun intended)... I know full well what they're doing here.
They're doing the same thing the Western civilizations are doing with North Korea and Iran [/quote]

very good answer, I cannot recall seeing that one before

I am firstly happy to simply answer what was essentially a simple, if ill-worded question by someone who is perhaps not completely au fait with the terminologies involved.

Yes AND yes.

I believe in UFO's
Because I have seen more UFO's in person than I have seen Native Americans... and I have no problem believing in Native Americans.
I believe in extraterrestrials.
Because firstly, science and mathematical probability demands that we believe this and secondly if I accept UFO's as piloted craft beyond the reach of current human technology then the extraterrestrial answer is no more or less ludicrous than the ones that involve a species living under the Earth's crust or under the sea or time travelling humans (which frankly equals extraterrestrial anyway because given long enough the human race is eventually going to begin populating other planets, so if they're far enough in the future to time-travel then they may just as well be far enough in the future to be extraterrestrial Humans.)

On the question which seems to have arisen on what on Earth they're doing here (pun intended)... I know full well what they're doing here.
They're doing the same thing the Western civilizations are doing with North Korea and Iran.
We're scared to death that a neighbour with a different ideology and perhaps a warlike rhetoric might develop a nuclear weapon and start brandishing it about making threats and demands that we won't like.
Well, humans are a dreadfully warlike bunch for whom it's demonstrably more than mere rhetoric. We have historically destroyed every new culture we have come across in search of food, resources and power. Never pure knowledge, never to spread wisdom and harmony but to grab gold and oil in exchange for some beads, some liquor and a liberal amount of threats. Ask the native Americans, the Australian Aboriginals, most of Africa, the Incas... need I go on?
[b][i]"Why don't they give us the cure for cancer?"[/i][/b] we bleat.
Because if they give it to just anyone then they wouldn't know what to do with it... except sell the formula to a pharmaceutical company who would make sure that it just made them richer. This is not a conspiracy theory just common sense. Give money to a gambling addict to feed his kids and he just gambles it away. Give humans food and we'd sell it to the rich, give us energy and we'd find smarter ways to take South American water and make Cola for Europe out of it and give us technology and we'll blow ourselves to kingdom come in 30 seconds flat. Us and half our solar system.
They're here because we're not half as clever or special as we think we are... and we're ten times more dangerous looking.
[b][i]Seriously... if you weren't human would you really want us living next door to you?[/i][/b]

Regards.

arthur c clarke stated that their has never been any artifact or reliable evidence-ever ; i tend to agree -sadly

I like it

welcome Thulsadoom :wide:

I think Rob42 has a good point. Money, certainly in our use of it, is a concept that likely doesn't mean much to life from other worlds (or other dimensions?). A society advanced enough to create interstellar craft likely has a technology where the production of such craft is almost simple. you only need to look at the difference between the first cars and modern cheap cars. As automation and production technology improves, so does cost and production time. The first interstellar craft of such beings may have been expensive custom jobs. As their own technology progresses, they're probably made in every bit as automated and common a way as modern motor vehicles or aircraft.

So then the question of 'trade' comes up. What is worthwhile to such beings? Money or even resources in the traditional human understanding are probably not an issue, especially when you can mine any interstellar body you wish to with ease. What probably means more to them are the less tangible things. So 'trade' with such cultures could be anything from genetic material (a popular belief) right through to artistic endeavours (music, art, literature, etc.) Simply our naive human outlook on reality might be a precious commodity in a universe where so much is no longer a mystery.

why would they let themselves be detected [ ufo`s] or alternatively why have they not revealed themselves , if only to trade -if they exist ,

I think you're missing the point. What has "WEALTH" got to do with it? What is "WEALTH"?

I think (in fact a HOPE) that by the process of evolution, that this Capitalist concept of wealth (which is based almost entirely on Fiat money, with virtually nothing of subsistence behind it) will die the death that it deserves. In fact it is that VERY system that is driving people to commit suicide in places like Greece...

Anyway, who knows what naturally occurring minerals or metals or living items we have on this planet, that may not occur elsewhere in the Universe, but are none the less needed or desired for whatever purpose or reason?

I think you are in danger of under estimating the value of the naturally occurring resources this planet has to offer while at the same time over estimating the the value of a man made concept called money.

to be in possession of the technology required to move from one star system to another would correspondingly infer WEALTH.

such technology would not be cheap, nor would the fuel to run it be cheap either.

so, intelligent beings who are wealthy already and in possession of massively advanced technology to our own, decide to come to this star system regularly because they need to "trade" with us.

so with all the wealth that they must have to possess and operate their crafts, they still "need" materials found on Earth that they cannot find anywhere else?

[quote="falkor"]Why should we be visited? and if so, why should we be visited year after year after year? surely the "visit" if for one year, would fulfill a UFO purpose? why would 2 years of visits, or even more be required?[/quote]

It's a good question, Malc, and one that I puzzled over for a few years. One answer that may be possible relates to the so called Zeta Reticuli Incident – aka the Hill Abduction.

[color=#BF0000]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Barney_Hill_abduction

Betty and Barney Hill were an American couple who claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials in a rural portion of New Hampshire on September 19–20, 1961.

The couple's story, called the Hill Abduction, and occasionally the Zeta Reticuli Incident, was that they had been kidnapped for a short time by a UFO. Theirs was the first widely-publicised claim of alien abduction, adapted into the best-selling 1966 book The Interrupted Journey and the 1975 television movie The UFO Incident.

Its importance is such that many of Betty Hill's notes, tapes, and other items have been placed in a permanent collection at the University of New Hampshire, her alma mater. As of July 2011, the site of the alleged craft's first close approach is marked by a state historical marker.[/color]

You need to be up-to-speed on the complete story to see where I'm coming from, but Betty describes (and even draws) a map that she said her abductors showed to her. She describes seeing some lines on the map and claims that she was told that the lines were "trade routes" or "places visited occasionally" with dotted lines described as “expeditions”, that is to say that the lines linked stars that would be worth a visit.

Marjorie E. Fish http://www.kochkyborg.de/BBHill/fishbibl.htm painstakingly constructed several three-dimensional models over a four and a half year period, using beads dangling on threads, checked data, searched and checked again and found a near perfect match from the viewpoint of the double star system of Zeta Reticuli. Her work has been verified using computer modeling.

Like I say, you need to digest the full story (and it takes some doing!) to see where I'm coming from, but basically if our Sun is one of a number of stars that a form a "trade route", then that would explain why we are being visited time and time again.

This site http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Zeta_Reticuli_Incident.htm#Zeta%20Reticuli%20Incident is well worth a visit if you are at all interested in this case. I have to say that if you are NOT interested in the Zeta Reticuli Incident, I think you should be as (IMHO) it represents one of the most compelling cases there is for the existence of another intelligent life form within 55 light years of Earth.

Now, to answer you question, Malc; well, how often do you go to the shops? Do you go just once in your life or do you go week after week after week?

So if we go with the notion for a moment (that these "Beings" are trading with this planet, the question now is with what are we trading? i.e what is it we are buying from "them" and what is it we are selling to "them"? To "trade" both parties need to have something the other party is in need of and can't get by any other means.

:geek:

as the population on this planet becomes denser and denser and the cities and even towns become more and more crowded .... surely the likelyhood of definite "evidence" of us being 'visited' would become overwhelming

and in addition to that, my thought is "why?"

Why should we be visited? and if so, why should we be visited year after year after year? surely the "visit" if for one year, would fulfill a UFO purpose? why would 2 years of visits, or even more be required?

[quote="wallarookiller"]absolutely true but I also believe that they are visiting us as well.[/quote]

Hi buddy :mrgreen:

Would you like to explain why you believe that "they" are visiting us as well?

Thanks ;)

[quote="mj12cz"]For me its not Do they exist? its have they been visiting us?

There is no doubt in the varstness of space there is other forms of life, be it bacteria or Highly advanced.[/quote]

absolutely true but I also believe that they are visiting us as well.

For me its not Do they exist? its have they been visiting us?

There is no doubt in the varstness of space there is other forms of life, be it bacteria or Highly advanced.

I think I could point any interested party in the direction of some reports that have very compelling evidence that we have had (and continue to have) objects flying about the skies that defy any known technology of the day (as I'm sure any good Ufologist could). For open-minded, rationale people, that should dispel any ridicule. I tend not to get too involved with closed-minded, in-rationale people as they make me feel like I''m :br:

I think the other thing is not to loose a sense of humor about these things. As you say falkor, some people feel embarrassed by the subject. I find that a little humor helps to dispel the embarrassment and can encourage people to tell you what they really think rather than what society in general would have them think or believe.

I'd like to know what AllohagiX's views are, what the "real" question is and about the project?

:vwide: